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[装甲车] 中国96A/B参加坦克世界杯弹无虚发

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暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-19 21:37 | 显示全部楼层
豆丁网的论文,很有意思:

这篇文章,王醒桥为第二作者,这篇文章可以印证 77 楼的说法(王认为下反比上反好),或者说 77 楼的说法由此而来。而且这篇文章可以说明,至少在 1999 年,俄罗斯/苏联的坦克都是下反稳定的。
http://www.docin.com/p-90526344.html


这篇文章为硕士论文,有意思的地方不多,不过可以说明,至少在 2006 年,中国的坦克稳像系统都是模拟式的。
http://www.docin.com/p-812201146.html
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-19 22:20 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 暗夜流星 于 2014-8-19 22:35 编辑

2010 年,北方车辆研究所和北理工的论文。可以看出下一代坦克火控系统的端倪,我个人理解的思路是,炮手不再通过光学系统瞄准目标了(所谓上反下反的概念也就不存在了),而是把各种传感器集成在一个陀螺稳定的平台上,炮手通过电子显示屏幕接收经过计算机综合处理的图像(真是一个无趣的世界)。

那这样的话,炮塔有人无人也就不重要了。所以中国的下一代坦克很可能是双人制,无人炮塔,模块化(某种模块可能具有 140毫米炮),高度电子化和信息化,直瞄和间瞄能力同时具备的新一代坦克,而且时间不会太远,估计 10 年之内可以装备。

http://www.docin.com/p-281308780.html

点评

那信息感知能力和GUI得非常好才行,要不然一个射手要处理的信息量太多了  发表于 2014-8-20 21:55
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 04:47 | 显示全部楼层
印度媒体报道中国军队在17日越过中印实控线(LCA),深入印度领土25公里的拉达克地区,在去年帐篷大战的地方开始搭帐篷,印度军方的巡逻队上前查看发现解放军竖起了一面写着“这是中国领土,请回”的大旗,印度军方的巡逻队只好离开回营地报告上级。

印度军方稍后时间宣布派一个拥有150辆T72和Smerch火箭炮系统的装甲旅前往拉达克地区.

India ramps up defence along China border

Ajay Banerjee

Tribune News Service

Leh, August 17

India has started ramping up military defences in the Ladakh sector of Jammu and Kashmir that faces China, especially after Beijing has ringed the area with at least six airfields, fighter aircraft, all terrain vehicles and special forces that are backed by top-class metalled roads right up to the Line of Actual Control (LAC).

New Delhi will be moving an armoured brigade — some 150 T-72 tanks — to Ladakh and also have Smerch multi-barrel rocket launch units placed at key locations. These are capable of hitting targets 70-80 kms away.

An armoured regiment — 46 tanks — had moved in last year to join the Kiari-based 70 Brigade and is now located at a forward sector, 20 km inside the LAC, where India suffered a setback in the 1962 conflict with China. This is separate from the upcoming Armoured Brigade that will be directly controlled by the Leh-based 14 Corps. Its three Regiments, comprising 46 tanks each, will be co-located with existing infantry and artillery regiments of the Indian Army. Meaning an armoured component will be available from the northern most tip, that is the base of the Karokaram pass at Daulat Baig Oldie, to the south eastern extreme of Demchok and Chumar, sources said. Adding up the numbers would mean that over the next 18 months India would have stationed 200 of the T-72 tanks in Ladakh and all night-sight equipped.

Ladakh being a plateau is ideal tank country. The only effort is in bringing the tanks through the narrow and high Himlayan passes on the Srinagar-Leh route or the Manali-Leh route.

----------------------------------------------------

按:所以高原上对付T-72M以上是有现实意义的。
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 04:59 | 显示全部楼层
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-19 22:20
2010 年,北方车辆研究所和北理工的论文。可以看出下一代坦克火控系统的端倪,我个人理解的思路是,炮手不 ...

的确,现在惯性元件+电动伺服便宜多了,图像处理也牛掰上千倍(比30年前)上反下反的差别都不大了,一般就说几个 通道稳像跟踪。
另苏-俄最迟T-80开始就有用上反的。它火控水平其实也还行。
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 11:36 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 04:47
印度媒体报道中国军队在17日越过中印实控线(LCA),深入印度领土25公里的拉达克地区,在去年帐篷大战的地 ...

拉达克在印控克什米尔,那个地方用坦克有点疯狂。


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暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 11:56 | 显示全部楼层
这些地方,坦克只能和民用车辆一样,在几条有限的道路上行进。






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lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 13:15 | 显示全部楼层
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 11:56
这些地方,坦克只能和民用车辆一样,在几条有限的道路上行进。

有另外一处更合适装甲使用的在锡金。哪家的坦克先控制山脊就赢了大半。

lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 13:45 | 显示全部楼层
中印边界最适合坦克可能是阿克赛钦





lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 13:47 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2014-8-20 14:03 编辑

阿克赛钦沙盘赫立!



近年来,国防大学积极探索与作战部队开展“联训联教”活动,将学员直接带进演兵场,在实兵、实弹、实爆的战场环境中磨砺他们的联合作战指挥能力,使一批新型军事指挥人才得到锤炼。



悬在阿三心脏上的达摩之剑

    发现我国制作的“阿克赛钦”地区巨型露天沙盘。   ×900m这个地方在银川西南,北纬38分16.49度55附近,据说是在一个叫做黄羊滩的陆军直升机机场附近。






悬在阿三心脏上的达摩之剑,据说解放军在兰州军区一大型军事基地建有非常巨大的阿克赛钦地区实际地形沙盘,每年派来大批精锐部队模拟演习。



[size=12.800000190734863px]阿克赛钦地势平缓,并有山口通往克什米尔地区,传统上是新疆南部地区与南亚往来的重要交通途径。中国新藏公路通过阿克塞钦。,突厥语,意为“中国的白石滩”),位于和田南部昆仑山与喀喇昆仑山间是半封闭性山间盆地。中国与印度对阿克塞钦归属存在争议,到2009月为止,世界上仍然公认阿克赛钦为中国实际管辖地,属新疆和田行政区域。阿克赛钦面积3米西线边境争端主要是新疆阿克赛钦地区归属之争。阿克赛钦是一块被喀喇昆仑山,昆仑山及阿里高原环绕的盆地,自古以来就是从新疆到达西藏的重要通道,一直属于中国,直到五十年代印度人抗议中国通过阿克赛钦修建新藏公路以前,中国政府并不知道印度对这里有领土要求。


    世纪60万平方公里的土地划进英印的属地,将中印分界线画在了昆仑山一侧。对于这条约翰逊线,英国政府并未知会清朝政府,历代中国政府包括新中国并不知道此事,更谈不上承认了 现在中印的争议领土主要是东部的藏南和达旺以及西部的阿克赛钦.而印度侵占着东部的藏南和达旺.而东部的藏南和达旺地势低.各种资源异常丰富.因此许多人认为以前中国在中印战争获胜后拥有非常荒凉的阿克赛钦而放弃藏南和达旺是一个重大失误.中国放弃荒凉的阿克赛钦而取得达旺和藏南.别看阿克赛钦荒凉.它的价值远远高于藏南和达旺.为了吃到藏南和达旺这块肥肉.但握有阿克赛钦这把利剑.因此当年毛泽东主席放弃藏南和达旺而坚决守住阿克赛钦体现了一个伟人不同凡人的战略眼光.现在那些主张放弃阿克赛钦而要回藏南和达旺的人真的是鼠目寸光的平凡之辈.


    要和周边国家和睦相处.可以放弃了.当今这个世界虽然经济高度发达.但这个世界从本质来说还是个弱肉强食的丛林.世界上没有永远的敌人.亲兄弟都要闹分家.以前的苏联.越南.所以任何时候自己的国家利益是最重要的.










kktt 发表于 2014-8-20 13:48 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 04:47
印度媒体报道中国军队在17日越过中印实控线(LCA),深入印度领土25公里的拉达克地区,在去年帐篷大战的地 ...

http://www.business-standard.com ... 114081900634_1.html

Army Chief dismisses reports of Chinese intrusion

Chinese troops were reported to have entered 25 to 30 km deep into Indian territory in Burtse area
Press Trust of India  |  New Delhi
August 19, 2014 Last Updated at 15:06 IST

Army Chief General Dalbir Singh Suhag today dismissed reports that Chinese troops had entered 25 to 30 km deep into Indian territory in Burtse area in Ladakh.

"There is nothing like that," he said in reply to a question.

Chinese troops were reported to have entered 25 to 30 km deep into Indian territory in Burtse area, which is located at an altitude of 17,000 feet.

Last year, they had pitched tents in the area leading to a tense three-week standoff.
kktt 发表于 2014-8-20 13:52 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 13:47
转阿克赛钦沙盘赫立!

二炮某部的报道


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lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 13:54 | 显示全部楼层
kktt 发表于 2014-8-20 13:48
http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/army-chief-dismisses-reports-of-chinese-intru ...

重点可能是印度 军中某派想调坦克到阿克赛钦
kktt 发表于 2014-8-20 13:58 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 kktt 于 2014-8-20 14:00 编辑
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 13:54
重点可能是印度 军中某派想调坦克到阿克赛钦

对付印军的坦克,用300mm远火的反装甲末敏弹就行了

库尔勒正在进行“火力2014”演习

http://www.81.cn/jwgz/2014-07/30/content_6070861.htm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/yzyd/photo/20140809/c_1112005719.htm
http://news.xinhuanet.com/mil/2014-07/30/c_126815670.htm
http://gx.people.com.cn/n/2014/0804/c350595-21869316.html

lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-20 14:09 | 显示全部楼层
kktt 发表于 2014-8-20 13:58
对付印军的坦克,用300mm远火的反装甲末敏弹就行了

库尔勒正在进行“火力2014”演习

难怪印度也想调Smerch火箭炮系统啊。
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 20:06 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 暗夜流星 于 2014-8-20 20:09 编辑

我刚才又看了看 GE,发现在这个地区要想运用坦克太难了,车辆机动只能通过有限的几条峡谷中的道路。强行突破到达对方控制区内的开阔地带不是不可能,但付出的代价难以想像,更何况,这种胜利没什么价值,因为翻越克什米尔的补给线实在太坑爹,你肯定守不住。

那个印度媒体炮制的假消息已经被军方否认,但假如印度真的派驻了坦克旅,估计还是在开阔地带部署,作为一支机动防御力量。反过来说,中国在阿克塞钦的部署,其意图也差不多。

中印的实际控制线,恰好也是自然地理的分界线,虽然和双方的主张都相去甚远。

暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 20:22 | 显示全部楼层
至于越南,虽然地形总体来说也不利于坦克进攻,但好歹有几条通道。但如果真的要打击越南,就现在或者未来不远的中国的军事力量,走海空军更便捷,而不是仅仅依靠陆上力量。

因为越南是个长条形,最窄的地方只有50公里左右,而且,这个要害的软肋离海南岛太近了。中国很容易就可以利用海空军的优势把越南一分为二,先把越南北方解决了,剩下的事情就好办了。

打这种仗要速战速决,轮式战车和轻型坦克也许更合适。
头像被屏蔽
武安君二世 发表于 2014-8-20 20:29 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 22:04 | 显示全部楼层
ddg1111 发表于 2014-8-20 21:40
噗,上反和下反都可以毫不费力地,动对静和动对动,无本质区别,强国人的心路历程,大体是,发动机趴窝, ...

王醒桥的这篇文章发表于 1999 年,我个人觉得这篇文章的结论是有问题的。也许当时的认识程度就是那样,或者说有不能说的原因,比如相关技术不到位,想做上反有一定难度。

我觉得吧,基本的技术原理在那里摆着,西方的现代坦克无一例外选用上反方案就很能说明问题,对专家要尊敬,但不能迷信,更何况是十五年前的文章。
lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-21 00:23 | 显示全部楼层
暗夜流星 发表于 2014-8-20 20:06
我刚才又看了看 GE,发现在这个地区要想运用坦克太难了,车辆机动只能通过有限的几条峡谷中的道路。强行突 ...

India concerned at Chinese incursions

As talks between India and Pakistan on their 67-year-old dispute about Kashmir break down again, tensions with China are also rising in the area. Indian military sources say China has sent troops into the Burtse area in Ladakh, part of a zone of disputed control between the two countries.

According to the Times of India, Chinese troops have entered 25 to 30 km (15 to 18 miles) into the state of Jammu and Kashmir from western China. Citing unnamed Indian officials, the report said a regular patrol of Indian troops noticed Chinese People’s Liberation Army personnel moving towards higher terrain in Burtse on Monday. A nonviolent confrontation between Indian and Chinese soldiers occurred, and PLA troops refused to leave the area. Adhering to their newly established Standard Operating Procedures, Indian troops eventually returned to their base and informed higher officers. The mountainous, remote Ladakh area was also the setting of a tense three-week standoff last year between the Indian and Chinese militaries. Confrontations occur at altitudes that can exceed 17,000 feet (5,200 m).

DNA India however, is reporting that both Indian Army Chief of Staff Gen. Dalbir Suhag and spokesman Col. S.D. Goswami denied that any confrontation occurred. They blamed an unclear definition of the Line of Actual Control, which divides the two countries, for the confusion. Both countries openly accept that they have different definitions of the LAC, but mutually agree not to break the status quo in the area. However, they frequently trade accusations of incursion. “There are areas along the border where India and China have differing perception of LAC,” Goswami said in a statement. “Due to both sides undertaking patrolling up to their respective perception of the LAC, transgressions do occur.”

Whether the most recent incursion actually occurred is still being disputed, but some politicians insist that India beef up border security. “The PLA has intruded 25 km in Ladakh, and our government is justifying it by stating China has only come up to its perception line,” opposition Congress Party leader Manish Tewari said, according to India Today.

“Had a tough message been sent from Red Fort [i.e. the Indian government] to Pakistan and China, this interference from Pakistan and Chinese intrusions wouldn’t have happened,” Congress leader Rashid Alvi added.

In the past, the Chinese have frequently tested the limits of India’s borders. Earlier this summer, Chinese troops reportedly breached the LAC along the border into Jammu and Kashmir twice over the span of three days. Last year, India made similar allegations of a breach of borders by PLA troops. In January, Chinese troops reportedly entered Chumar, a southern area of Kashmir, only to retreat after Indian forces asserted their presence.

Chinese media and officials don’t often acknowledge accusations from India regarding border incursions by their military, maintaining that they are within their territorial rights. While Indian media picked up the news of the alleged incursion, the state-controlled Chinese media have yet to carry any of the reports.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
只是说否认“冲突” 没否认“incursion”

lemoncap 发表于 2014-8-21 00:31 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2014-8-21 03:08 编辑

印度坦克在拉达克是肯定的,部队番号都给了。

至于地形是否适合 坦克看看上传的地形。 两箭头附近几十公里上百公里是印军1962大战惨败的遗迹如“烈士墓”,装备残骸。“争议区”为中国领土。


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