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[机型] 俄媒:国防部长绍伊古责成恢复生产图-160战略轰炸机

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Lsquirrel 发表于 2015-5-29 17:31 | 显示全部楼层
kktt 发表于 2015-5-29 16:33
总司令的意思是,新生产10架,加上以前生产(并改造)的40架,一共50架

Tu160总共只生产过35架,俄罗斯空军现役16架其中12作战4训练,2020年前要增加到50架,只能是新生产40架
kktt 发表于 2015-5-30 17:34 | 显示全部楼层
Lsquirrel 发表于 2015-5-29 17:31
Tu160总共只生产过35架,俄罗斯空军现役16架其中12作战4训练,2020年前要增加到50架,只能是新生产40架

谢谢指正

我的问题是:

1,俄罗斯需要这么多战略轰炸吗?
2,需要多少钱?
Lsquirrel 发表于 2015-5-31 09:48 | 显示全部楼层
kktt 发表于 2015-5-30 17:34
谢谢指正

我的问题是:

我的看法,他们肯定需要更多的战略轰炸机,但是否要50架图160,就看他们的战略目标了,要是抗衡美国为目的,这远远不够
今年俄军计划采购以Su30、Su35为主的战斗机,数量高达100多架。图160造价昂贵,不过5年内新造40架咬紧牙还是买得起的,个人估计他们的采购价折算过来怎么也得1~2亿美元
langge945 发表于 2015-5-31 15:20 | 显示全部楼层
Lsquirrel 发表于 2015-5-31 09:48
我的看法,他们肯定需要更多的战略轰炸机,但是否要50架图160,就看他们的战略目标了,要是抗衡美国为目 ...

我看俄毛不一定完成,很多东西,俄毛说的太多,做的太少,而且很多TU160的乌克兰的配套已经被瓦解的分崩离析了。要造一架TU160不是那么简单的事情。就像俄毛以前说要振兴他们的造船工业一样(以前说法是建造6艘航母,后来降低标准到6艘西北风级的两栖攻击舰),结果现在乌克兰危机一来,乌克兰相关配套一断供,俄毛那边就无法开展下去工作了。
kktt 发表于 2015-6-12 18:53 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 kktt 于 2015-6-12 19:00 编辑

Russia's bomber production plans 'not feasible'

Publication:Jane's Defence Weekly
Author:Reuben F Johnson, Kiev
Last posted:2015-06-11

Recent declarations by Russian officials regarding plans to re-start production of the Tupolev Tu-160 strategic bomber, combined with various other announced procurements, are being met with scepticism by a number of experts. The two reasons most commonly cited for this are that Russian industry lacks the numbers of qualified personnel necessary to support so many procurements taking place simultaneously and that the funding available is nowhere close to what would be required.
The Tupolev Tu-160 first flew in 1981. Just 16 examples were produced by the Soviet Union, but Moscow plans to restart the line and build another 50.
The Russian deputy defence minister for procurement, Yury Borisov, told news outlets on 4 June that the envisioned new-build Tu-160 would essentially be a new aircraft due to its onboard systems being several generations beyond the 1980s-era avionics suite of the original Tu-160. "This aircraft would be designated the Tu-160M2," he said, adding that, "according to our plans, this will most likely happen sometime after 2023".
In addition to the plan for a modernised Tu-160, another initiative calls for 130 Mikoyan MiG-31 interceptors to be brought up to the MiG-31BM configuration. Central to that upgrade is the installation of a new avionics suite, modernised crew stations fitted with state-of-the-art displays and a new variant of the onboard radar set. Known as the NIIP Zaslon-M, this enhanced model of the passive electronically scanning array (PESA) design has an enlarged antenna array around 1.4 m wide, which increases the number of targets that can be handled simultaneously in track-while-scan (TWS) mode to 10. The range of the radar against aerial targets with the radar cross-section of a typical fighter is 320 km, while targets can be fired upon at up to 280 km.
In addition, the chief of staff of the Russian Air Force (VVS), Colonel General Viktor Bondarev, is also calling for large numbers of Sukhoi Su-30MK, Su-35 and T-50/PFI fifth-generation fighters, Su-34 fighter-bombers, and a new domestic version of the MiG-35 that was formerly proposed for export to India.
"The people issuing these orders still believe we are living in Soviet times," said a Moscow-based analyst of the Russian defence sector, "where you simply make proclamations and an entire constellation of design bureaus and production plants charge forward and no one is estimating the money required or - even worse - calculating anything like the opportunity cost created."
A commonly cited weakness of today's Russian defence sector is that the workforce is only a small fraction of its former, Soviet-era size, with a commensurate drop in its capacity. Following a soon-to-be-completed round of reductions within the Russian defence sector, the numbers of personnel to be left at some of the most critical design bureaus is estimated at being less than 10% of their apex in the 1980s.

ANALYSIS

Col Gen Bondarev stated at the end of May that the plans to once again build versions of the Tu-160 would in no way adversely affect the Perspektivniy Aviatsionniy Kompleks Dalney Aviatsii (Perspective Aviation Complex - Long-Range Aviation: PAK-DA) project. However, the production facilities for the PAK-DA and for a re-start of Tu-160 production would be essentially the same factories and design centres, as there are no other comparable enterprises in Russia.
"It is difficult to believe that two very different types of aircraft - one a stealthy, blended wing/body design and the other a traditional airframe design with a variable-sweep wing - could be built on top of one another without adversely affecting both programmes," said a US defence industry executive with experience of new-generation aircraft designs.
Additionally, some of the same experts who spoke to IHS Jane's pointed out that the production lines for the Tu-160 have been idle for years and that the necessary re-tooling of the facilities would require massive investment. Most of the production plants in Russia's defence sector are estimated to be working at no better than 40% of their original capacity. Even if the production plants were to receive such massive funding, the 50 new Tu-160M2s that will supposedly be built represent more than three times the 15 Tu-160s built in Soviet times when the plant was at its peak level of production.
Funding is perhaps a greater problem. The 2015 Russian defence budget that was developed in the summer of 2014 was based on projected revenues from oil being priced at USD100 or more per barrel and with inflation rising no higher than 5%. Today, world oil prices are well below this mark and Russia currently suffers from double-digit inflation. This has, in part, caused various new Russian defence programmes, such as that for the T-14 Armata tank, to come in at 250% or more above their original target cost per unit.
The engine fire that grounded Russia's entire fleet of Tu-95 bombers in the first week of June is "a symptom of the bigger disease in the Russian armed forces. The fleets of these strategic platforms are ageing fast and there is nothing to replace them with," said the Moscow-based analyst. "Grandiose announcements calling to for huge numbers of bombers to be built to replace them - announcements bereft of any sense of reality - are evidence of the undying belief in the power of bureaucratic solutions within Russian officialdom."
 楼主| 悍马骑士 发表于 2015-7-3 21:09 | 显示全部楼层

俄副防长:图-160M2轰炸机性能是原型机2.5倍

卫星新闻大诺夫哥罗德电 俄罗斯国防部副部长尤里•鲍里索夫向记者表示,国防部计划恢复图-160战略轰炸机的改良版图-160M2的生产,该型飞机基本上是一款全新产品,其性能是原型机的2.5倍。

全文 详见: http://sputniknews.cn/military/2 ... .html#ixzz3eoqbm5ZN

鲍里索夫说:"国防部计划恢复图-160战略轰炸机的生产,但这里指的不是上世纪80年代研制并服役至今的图-160原型机,而是被命为图-160M2的改良版,基本上是一款全新的飞机。"
据他所说,图-160M2将继承原型机的机身和飞机技术性能,但无线电设备和武器系统将得到根本性的升级。鲍里索夫称,其战斗性能将是原型机的至少2.5倍。
鲍里索夫此前表示,图-160M2的生产按计划大概将在2023年后开始。俄罗斯空军总司令维克托•邦达列夫透露,俄国防部在生产恢复后将购入至少50架新型图-160"白天鹅"战略轰炸机。

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 楼主| 悍马骑士 发表于 2015-7-3 21:10 | 显示全部楼层


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马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-3 22:16 | 显示全部楼层
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shaolin1254 发表于 2015-7-3 23:00 | 显示全部楼层
马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-3 22:16
这其实是两个低风险的项目,飞机有无不重要,主要还是启动HK32发动机的生产,既可以用在TU160上,也可以是P ...

PD30都是新一代大涵道比涡扇了还能用HK32做核心机?那现在从头搞的PD14直接用PS90的核心机多方便?
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马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-3 23:08 | 显示全部楼层
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空弹匣 发表于 2015-7-4 11:14 | 显示全部楼层
得了吧,图160这个项目已经终结了,毛子一架新的图160都生产不出来(从材料、零件开始生产,从独联体国家进口散件拼装,或用停飞飞机拼装不算。)
ssizz 发表于 2015-7-4 13:13 | 显示全部楼层
空弹匣 发表于 2015-7-4 11:14
得了吧,图160这个项目已经终结了,毛子一架新的图160都生产不出来(从材料、零件开始生产,从独联体国家进 ...

你没看见“图-160M2的生产按计划大概将在2023年后开始”么?
2023年啊,哈哈哈哈哈哈
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马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-4 13:21 | 显示全部楼层
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ssizz 发表于 2015-7-4 13:55 | 显示全部楼层
马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-4 13:21
这个是需求量决定的,下限就是启动量,军方的需求现在都在个位数,以前俄罗斯还调查过俄罗斯航空部门对于 ...

8年后生产这种玩意儿
说不定你泱泱大俄罗斯的隐形轰炸机都先出来了
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马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-4 14:10 | 显示全部楼层
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langge945 发表于 2015-7-4 21:32 | 显示全部楼层
马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-4 14:10
这个对于美国为作战对象,隐形轰炸机是个摆设,过不了美国侦测体系的,性价比几乎没有,对付菜鸟级别的根 ...

隐身机是摆设?真不知道说你什么好,隐身机是摆设,为什么其他国家都在大力发展隐身机。
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马里尤斯 发表于 2015-7-4 22:52 | 显示全部楼层
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langge945 发表于 2015-12-23 14:39 | 显示全部楼层
俄中2015年军事技术合作成果 © 俄国防部
军事
19:01 2015年12月22日(更新 21:41 2015年12月22日) 缩短网址

俄中军事技术合作在双边关系中扮演重要的角色。中国是俄罗斯军用产品的重要市场,解放军许多重要的重新装备计划的实施与俄罗斯的合作密切相关。即将过去的一年也不例外。战略与技术分析中心专家卡申对俄中2015年两国军事技术合作成果进行了总结。

俄中两国签署对华供应24架苏-35、总造价为20多亿美元的大单,成为2015年的一个重大事件。考虑到2014年签署、目前正在履行的S-400防空导弹系统供应合同,可以预测,该合同的实施将让俄中两国每年的军事技术合作规模在2016到2017年间就可接近25-30亿美元。
与此同时,俄中两国合作的主要内容仍是虽不太引人注目,但却非常重要的有关提供俄制部件、元件、材料的合同,以及由中方军工企业买单的研究与开发。从俄罗斯官方人物那里得知,该领域的合作也取得了很大的进展。

这里指的是对先前提供的武器,包括防空武器系统,进行升级。更重要的还有,有望在不远的将来俄中将加强在发动机制造领域里的合作。中方对俄罗斯苏-35战斗机的发动机117S很感兴趣。中方希望俄方能转交技术和发动机,用于开发本国的第五代战斗机J-20。

很有可能,就战略轰炸机方面的合作加紧谈判。何况俄罗斯去年就对战略轰炸机图-160全面升级和生产此类新型飞机的问题进行了认真讨论。

如果中方对该项目感兴趣,就可以用相对较少的费用联手实施。装备有新型电子设备和发动机的升级版图-160,将能突破第一和第二岛链,在太平洋空域针对海上和陆地目标开展活动。但目前还不清楚,这种飞机与解放军空军现在的发展概念有着怎样的吻合度。中国人有可能希望实施更大的项目,但不得不考虑到自己有限的技术和资金条件。
在俄罗斯受到西方制裁的条件下,中国自己也成了向俄罗斯提供军事技术的重要国家。因受欧洲制裁,俄罗斯新款“暴徒”级21631型轻型护卫舰,将要安装的不是德国而是中国的柴油发动机。俄罗斯还希望中国提供微电子元件。同时,俄罗斯还准备更积极地参与中国各种用途的航天计划的实施。

自2014年年底卢布贬值以来,俄罗斯机械制造和武器产品也更具竞争力。同中国合作,对俄罗斯工业来说,也因此正变得更有魅力。还有两国在政治上的快速接近,所有这些不能不让我们对俄中军事技术合作前景充满乐观。



全文 详见: http://sputniknews.cn/military/2 ... .html#ixzz3v7ikNeu5

langge945 发表于 2015-12-23 14:41 | 显示全部楼层
langge945 发表于 2015-12-23 14:39
俄中2015年军事技术合作成果 © 俄国防部
军事
19:01 2015年12月22日(更新 21:41 2015年12月22日) 缩 ...

俄毛重启TU160的又一说法。。
望天观海 发表于 2015-12-23 16:39 | 显示全部楼层
都不说研制大飞翼隐身机?
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