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[水面舰艇] 首艘国产航母001A型航空母舰专题:2017年4月26日下水

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zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-20 19:44 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
tg的甲板起飞技术评估,跃滑levek
zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-20 19:47 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-20 19:44
tg的甲板起飞技术评估,跃滑levek

跃滑level9属于经过有效验证的成熟技术,蒸汽弹射,原型已经造好,过了level7,电磁弹射原型未见,说明还不到level7
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 08:58 | 显示全部楼层
zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-20 19:38
胡说九道...... 按9级成熟度评估,明明已经到level8了,你非说连level6都不到,睁眼说瞎话

Technology readiness level 1-9 是说这个技术在其可用的范围内可靠性如何。压根没说这个技术本身性能如何。比如福特级的电磁弹射器除可靠性外,最大的问题就是体积大、超重。其飞轮储能部分就基本超过原蒸汽弹射系统的总重。还不要说飞轮储能部分的可靠性问题。

很多人迷信电磁系统,想当然的以为电动就是简单、清洁、高效、高能的同义词。这就是福特级骑虎难下的主要原因之一。
zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-23 09:41 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 08:58
Technology readiness level 1-9 是说这个技术在其可用的范围内可靠性如何。压根没说这个技术本身性能如 ...

你直接投书MD吧——这个建议可以秒杀MD专家了,还混什么论坛啊......     

我就是搞不懂一条,人家已经把产品做出来了,对着真家伙,居然还有人说:你看,我说做不成吧,或者,你看,我说要失败吧......   

古人云,指鹿为马。  一直以为夸大其词,今日所见,古人诚不欺也
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lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 09:53 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-23 10:41 编辑

回44楼--------
我混DARPA的,海军不管我的事。我也管不着。
事实就是电磁弹射器拖了福特的后腿。我看指鹿为马的正好是你呢。
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 09:58 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-23 10:05 编辑

NEWPORT NEWS, Va.— The failure of what was to be the first public shot of the electromagnetic aircraft launch system aboard the carrier Gerald R. Ford did little to help the embattled catapult's reputation.

Officials were quick to call this a "minor setback" and express confidence that EMALS will be operational as scheduled.

On Tuesday morning, officials placed a weighted sled at the end of Ford's Catapult 1. After a successful dry run, the Navy crew set up for one more test. The catapult officer gave the command, the shooter pressed the launch button inside the cab and … nothing.

The exact problem was not immediately clear. Matt Mulherin, president of Newport News Shipbuilding, said some of the circuitry was showing faults. The carrier's skipper categorized it as a "communication-type issue of components talking together."

"We would have liked to have seen this shoot today," Capt. John Meier, Ford's commanding officer, said. "I'm certainly not disappointed in where we are in the test program. … I think that what we have today is a minor setback to the test program. We will get back on track [and] our team knows that. As a matter of fact, you don't see them around right now because they are getting after it."

After media left, the system was fixed and successfully launched two dead loads around 1 p.m. The first weighed 15,000 pounds and traveled at 140 knots. The second dead load weighed 8,000 pounds and traveled at 180 knots. Another 20 testing days with weighted sleds remain aboard Ford. The planned operational launch of aircraft is set for 2017.

Shipbuilders and the crew have launched 15 sleds of varying weights and speeds from Catapult 2 in three days. Similar issues were seen amid those successful launches, Meier said.

"As you go through the testing program, it is not uncommon to have hiccups, if you will, or minor discrepancies," he said. "We have seen nothing that I would consider a major test interruption whatsoever."
By Lance M. Bacon, Staff writer4:17 p.m. EDT June 16, 2015

电磁弹射器已经是臭名昭著。
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 10:34 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-23 10:35 编辑

In 2007, the Navy faced the potential of seeing EMALS terminated. The Navy charged
General Atomics with building a system in which each of the four catapults on the carrier
weighed 530 tons
. Yet each launcher being produced was about 100 tons overweight, making
the total system 400 tons overweight. The system, as built was going to take up too much
space. The Navy corrected the problem by changing EMALS from having stand-alone electrical
equipment for each catapult to systems that could be shared by all four catapults on the ship
Electrical systems and inverters were thus reconfigured for shared use among each of the
catapults. Additionally, there was an initial problem with the EMALS energy storage device.
The component employed steel clips, which caused an arcing of electric fields. The storage
device was redesigned so that it employed more traditional plastic clips.

看吧,每个弹射器630吨,比蒸汽的~470吨多的多。 美国海军,牛皮开始吹大了,最后骑虎难下。哈哈,
现在只好尽量不把丑事扯出来。其实也不怪对技术细节不是很清楚的海军。通用原子吹得天响,隐瞒了超重的问题,海军钱都扔了超十亿,生米做成熟饭。
D.yK 发表于 2015-10-23 10:38 | 显示全部楼层
马伟民研究的貌似是超级电容储能,不知道谁有这方面资料
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 10:44 | 显示全部楼层
D.yK 发表于 2015-10-23 10:38
马伟民研究的貌似是超级电容储能,不知道谁有这方面资料

飞轮储能:~ 20 瓦特小时/公斤
超级电容: 1到2瓦特小时/公斤:更差,功率密度也不能满足要求,超级电容放电太慢。 
  
spacedog 发表于 2015-10-23 10:49 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 08:58
Technology readiness level 1-9 是说这个技术在其可用的范围内可靠性如何。压根没说这个技术本身性能如 ...

福特级的电磁弹射器除可靠性外,最大的问题就是体积大、超重。其飞轮储能部分就基本超过原蒸汽弹射系统的总重。——这个倒还是第一次听说,情报来源?
  不过就是电弹和蒸弹的总重量接近,电弹起码在布置的随意性上有优势,其飞轮或者电容储能部分可以放在船舱底部降低重心
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 10:53 | 显示全部楼层
一句话,很多时候,机械的东西、气压、液压的东西你是逃不过的,不要幻想电这个“万灵药”能啥都代替。 好好学学物理几大力学的基本原理,再好好结合实际工程积累,勤动脑,多思考,才能慢慢明白为什么。
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 10:55 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-23 10:58 编辑
spacedog 发表于 2015-10-23 10:49
福特级的电磁弹射器除可靠性外,最大的问题就是体积大、超重。其飞轮储能部分就基本超过原蒸汽弹射系统的 ...

www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA602992
47楼英文即引用该报告。
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 11:15 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-23 11:40 编辑

“这个倒还是第一次听说,情报来源?”
谈不上什么来源。这个其实是一个工程经验,如果你有电气、机械、液压、气动等工程一、二十年的积累。电真有那么万能,F-35B的升力风扇那早就应该是电传动的了。 看20楼讲福特级单个弹射器储能系统~400吨的数据国内几个军事刊物之一(或之二)约一年前的弹射器专辑就列出过的。我前段找过原始资料核实过。现在没时间再找但肯定是差不离的。

相关单位还在搞蒸汽就是因为这些个原因。  
langge945 发表于 2015-10-25 11:35 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 langge945 于 2015-10-25 11:41 编辑
zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-23 09:41
你直接投书MD吧——这个建议可以秒杀MD专家了,还混什么论坛啊......     

我就是搞不懂一条,人家已 ...

最后一句话简直说的太好了。
微博上关于001A的新图也出来了。



http://weibo.com/1799189873/D0CcSadbw

zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-25 22:20 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 09:58
NEWPORT NEWS, Va.— The failure of what was to be the first public shot of the electromagnetic aircr ...

您看明白原文在说什么问题了嘛??!!

做个比喻,枪械试验,扳机一扣,枪没响,有两个办法:

1   把枪验一下,看看什么问题,然后和领导说,这个枪要多试几次......

2   枪特么就是垃圾,弟兄们换大刀上吧......   

您貌似是就是2啊......   
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spacedog 发表于 2015-10-26 10:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 spacedog 于 2015-10-26 10:43 编辑
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 10:34
In 2007, the Navy faced the potential of seeing EMALS terminated. The Navy charged
General Atomics  ...

The Navy charged
General Atomics with building a system in which each of the four catapults on the carrier
weighed 530 tons.
Yet each launcher being produced was about 100 tons overweight, making
the total system 400 tons overweight.

这两句英语怎么理解?
我觉得应该是说目前正在生产的电弹每部重530吨,每部(比规定)超重了100吨,(4部)一共超重400吨。
您那个630吨是把超重又加了一遍。如果原来计划就是530吨重,比蒸汽弹射器还重60吨,那还有什么优势?可能根本就钓不到鱼上钩。原计划每部430吨(比蒸汽弹射轻40吨)比较合理,加上沉重的电源模块可以布置在底舱改善重心分布(兼做配重?),以及电弹的其它战术优势,这样才能钓鱼上钩啊。
      超重好像与电源模块采用钢壳(防爆?)有关系,但它在强电场中会打火(漏电?),现在改用塑料壳来减重。另外,体积似乎也超标了,这个以前似乎没有人想到。
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spacedog 发表于 2015-10-26 10:40 | 显示全部楼层
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-23 09:58
NEWPORT NEWS, Va.— The failure of what was to be the first public shot of the electromagnetic aircr ...

Officials were quick to call this a "minor setback" and express confidence that EMALS will be operational as scheduled.——安啦,只是一点小毛病,米鼈官员对于电弹还是很有信心滴!
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klonoa1121 发表于 2015-10-26 20:49 | 显示全部楼层
http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2092271-1-1.html


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lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-27 18:01 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-27 19:49 编辑
zhyuli 发表于 2015-10-25 22:20
您看明白原文在说什么问题了嘛??!!

做个比喻,枪械试验,扳机一扣,枪没响,有两个办法:

"2   枪特么就是垃圾,弟兄们换大刀上吧......   "

2 是你的选择之一,难道不是?

我选3, 拿把老枪,例如MG-42显然是好过M-60的。现在MG-42的衍生枪如MG-3还到处都是,比那所谓的新型武器如M-60强多了。是不是?
lemoncap 发表于 2015-10-27 18:08 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 lemoncap 于 2015-10-27 18:20 编辑
spacedog 发表于 2015-10-26 10:33
The Navy charged
General Atomics with building a system in which each of the four catapults on th ...

翻译一下:
海军原先交给通原任务要造一个系统其中每台弹射器重530吨。 然而现在在造的每台已经是超重100吨。。。。

退一万步,假设就是现在的电磁弹射器重530吨,那也是比蒸汽弹射器重60吨。美国海军不是还是硬着头皮吞这个苦果?
当然从某种逻辑上来讲这也说得通: 我的电磁即使是比你蒸汽重,但如果可靠性高的多,可以弹射的次数更多,那也是可以接受的。
但是现在看来,这几项指标没有一个达到。




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