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[军事专题] 俄军事改革和国防预算专题---国防采购系统改革

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老道 发表于 2012-1-26 19:31 | 显示全部楼层
点评haojiang77  你的问题就是把土鳖的经验当成普世经验加以无条件推广,好像全世界都该向土鳖学一样,这是自我意淫的一种方式  发表于 2012-1-26 15:01
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你的话是绝对不正确的!不是TG的经验如此,而是全世界军事装备的客观规律如此。既然是一种客观规律,那么排除了一些不正常的发展阶段,全世界本来就是相差无几。

多高的军费,就会有相应的人员规模,就会有相应的装备规模。装备不是一年采购的,必然退役前所有装备的总和,每年的维护费用任何国家都不可能例外。此外,人员的训练是基本战斗力的保证,这中间会有大量的装备、弹药、油料、器材……被消耗,这是不可能改变的。

这些都是放在任何一个国家皆准的真理,不存在什么仅仅适用于TG的经验。

点评

放之世界皆准的真理,那是指基本原理,不是具体手段,马克思主义放之世界还皆准呢,但是苏俄和土鳖革命是一样的经验和规律吗?  发表于 2012-1-27 17:45
规律一样或者原理一样,不等于与实际结合到一起就一样,马克思主义原理还一样呢,而各国的实际运用就不一样,这和国情和需求有关,说多了,人类普适价值还一样呢,但各国家民族还是有重大区别的  发表于 2012-1-27 17:43
zhyuli 发表于 2012-1-26 21:38 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
其实不止是比例问题,楼主自己也承认不少合同根本没有按时履行,那么这些合同涉及的国防拨款如何处理就是一个问题。所以俄毛的国防开支如何估计很复杂的,起码全盘抄新闻不对,本人反对的这个,不针对任何个人

点评

起码全盘抄新闻不对--除非乃是负责预算的人? 要不乃可以找出更准确的出来参考嘛。  发表于 2012-1-26 22:38
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-26 22:37 | 显示全部楼层
zhyuli 发表于 2012-1-26 21:38
其实不止是比例问题,楼主自己也承认不少合同根本没有按时履行,那么这些合同涉及的国防拨款如何处理就是一 ...

已经重复的提示了。 乃的这些个观点有出处否?

很多合同不按时执行, 是因为采购制度上有缺陷。 并不影响第二年的国防预算。

(注: 8月份签订当年合同,当年执行, 谁都困难。 这个也是现在军事改革的一部分。 另外, 有新观点出现的时候请给出出处。
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-26 22:41 | 显示全部楼层
图兰朵 发表于 2012-1-25 21:07
如果特别指出是直接装备采购费用就是买新装备的。

那样的话俄军费中装备采购费所占比重近2/3了(1.109 ...

有一点要清楚。 人家武装力量总人数是100万。  人员经费开支是较小滴。
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-26 23:15 | 显示全部楼层
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现在每年改进翻修军用机场的国防预算应该费用不小。


要完成356处军用机场的现代化翻修工作。

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http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120126/170964645.html

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Russia to Modernize All Military Airfields by 2020
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All of Russia’s military airfields will be upgraded and modernized by 2020, Defense Ministry spokesman Col Vladimir Drik said on Thursday.
That includes airbases, flight test and training centers, army aviation sites, and other facilities, he said.
This year construction of new runways and command and control structures will begin at military airports in the Krasnodar territory, and the Saratov, Astrakhan, and Kaliningrad regions.
Gen Nikolai Makarov, chief of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, said in November the Defense Ministry had a total of 356 aerodromes.

 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-27 12:12 | 显示全部楼层
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-25 15:56
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俄军事改革的重要组成部分-新薪资体系正式执行

the Northern Fleet began allowance payments for January. If you compare it with last year, we can see that the allowance has increased by 2 - 2.5 times. Now a lieutenant, taking into account allowances, will receive 80 thousand rubles.

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这个工资涨幅, 对于人工费用开支影响是比较大的。 职业化官兵数量增加到20多万, 这个也是一大笔费用开支。
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-27 15:56 | 显示全部楼层
http://stat.function.mil.ru/news ... ?id=10918305@egNews

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军事改革之军人薪资体系执行情况的进一步细节。

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The military department has completed work on charge servicemen higher allowance

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Head of the Department of social guarantees of the Ministry of Defence Anne Kondratiev at a meeting with media representatives stated that, as was determined by the Minister of Defence, to January 25, 2012 the War Department has completed work on charge of the military increased allowance.

She noted that at present in most formations and units of soldiers have already received the money today and this issue will be completely closed to all Armed Forces.

An important feature of the new system for granting military salaries is that the calculation and transfer allowance is made through a Uniform Settlement Center (CSC), located in Moscow. This centralization allows calculations to ensure the timely transfer allowance, and implement transparency and control over the expenditure of funds for its payment. To do this in the ICC formed an information center, which at the request of the military will give explanations about their individual allowance.

Head of Department also focused attention on the large amount of preparatory work. So, to implement a new federal law on the payroll of the Armed Forces from 1 January 2012, the Government and the Defense Ministry were developed more than 30 regulations in the form of relevant regulations and departmental orders.

The very concept of creating a new system of military pay from the significant increase of 2.5-3 times the salary of military positions and titles aimed at encouraging their professional growth and career development. To do so, provided the possibility of increasing the allowance depending on the specific types of service in the combat arms and Sun

As a result, taking into account the size of bonuses monthly pay is not less than: a platoon - 50 thousand rubles for the company commander - 66 thousand rubles;
a battalion commander - 76.2 thousand.


Undergoing military service under the contract in the Far North and equivalent areas, including remote, allowance will be paid in accordance with relevant coefficients.

Undergoing military service in military units abroad, as well as performing tasks in a state of emergency and armed conflict, as established by multiplying factors. When participating in hostilities are set premiums to the cash allowances from one to two salaries for the military post.

As an example, Anna Kondratiev led by the fact that the lieutenant who served in the Airborne Troops in remote areas, the size of the allowance to be 66.5 thousand rubles, and the lieutenant, serving in the crew of a submarine of the Northern Fleet - 92 4 thousand.

In order to encourage military service in the Russian Defense Ministry is continuing to expand the regulatory framework allowances and other aspects. In particular, it provides allowances for qualifying the level of physical training for military and knowledge of foreign languages. But not just for skills and knowledge, and for their applications in the performance of official duties. The exact dimensions of these allowances will be established shortly by order of Minister of Defense.

At the same time establish certain payments to the military:

mobility allowance if you move to another place of service - at a rate of one monetary salary on the military and one-quarter monetary salary for each family member;

a lump sum severance if the total duration of military service is less than 20 years - 2 monetary salary, and more than 20 years - seven times their monetary salary.

As for the conscripts, the Russian Ministry of Defense from January 1, 2012, in accordance with the decision of the President of the Russian Federation carried out an experiment to pay them a single allowance of $ 2 thousand rubles a month, irrespective of the military post.

Innovations have touched and retired military personnel. Their pensions recalculated based on the new salary for military rank and position, and in agreement with the Russian Ministry of Finance for January are between 22 and 27 December last year. In February the pension will be transferred on time and paid at the beginning of the month. The average size of military pensions increased by 1.6 times.

 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-29 12:25 | 显示全部楼层
---http://en.rian.ru/video/20120127/170987487.html

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按照罗戈津最近就军事工业改革发展的一系列会议, 提议不再对军火库中的过期弹药进行延寿处理。

直接进行销毁, 采购新的弹药补充。
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2012年俄工程部队需要销毁150万吨过期弹药。

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In 2012, units from the Russian Defense Ministry’s Engineering Corps will destroy over 1.5 million metric tons of expired ammunition. This RIA Novosti footage shows the destruction of the dangerous artillery shells
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-29 12:31 | 显示全部楼层
-------------------------
---http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120128/171003846.html

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这个是罗戈津继提议成立军工高新技术发展规划局之后的又一提议。

建议成立战略规划部门分析对于俄国家以及技术安全的威胁。

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Rogozin Proposes Body to Analyze Threats to National Security

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Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on Friday proposed setting up a strategic planning agency to analyze threats to Russia's national and technological security.
The agency’s functions would be to “assess possible ways of the development of the situation in the world in the security area and determine risks and threats to Russia's national defense capability and technological independence within at least 30 years or possibly even a longer period of time," Rogozin said at a plenary meeting of the Academy of Military Sciences.
“This body will work under the aegis of the Government Military-Industrial Commission’s Scientific and Technical Council,” Rogozin later said n his twitter.

 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-29 17:14 | 显示全部楼层
---http://www.rusnews.cn/eguoxinwen ... 20129/43306675.html

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组建了航空航天防御部队并进入战斗执勤之后。 进一步明确裁军(军事改革)之后的航天和信息战军备发展方向。

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俄总参谋长:俄罗斯应准备应对信息战和航天战

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莫斯科1月29日电 俄罗斯武装力量总参谋长尼古拉·马卡罗夫28日表示,俄罗斯应对航空航天和信息领域的战争做好准备。

马卡罗夫在莫斯科军事科学院全会上讲话时说:“众所周知,现代作战中心已从传统的海陆战场转移至航空航天和信息领域,其中包括网络安全。网络中心战概念已经得到长足发展,西方先进国家在解决这一问题上十分高效和高质。”

他指出,不对称战争近期得到广泛应用,其初始阶段对战争的进程和结局起着决定性作用。此类战争的特点是持续时间短、强度大。

马卡罗夫说:“显然,由于裁军,需要依靠高科技来提高作战效率,采用新型作战方式可以解决之前需由大量人力完成的任务。



 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-30 16:50 | 显示全部楼层
JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-24 23:03
http://vz.ru/news/2012/1/24/556053.html

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011年没有按照合同完成俄国防采购预算的不完全企业名单。


(注: 以前是喂不饱,现在是兼顾着出口订单, 做不出来,完不了俄国防部的年度合同生产任务。 )

======================

排名不分前后。

1. 谢夫马斯船厂--project 955和 project 885都没要按照原要求完成任务。 (武器国家测试验收问题)

2. 波罗的海造船厂--两栖登陆舰-project 11711的进度,毛舰党是比较熟悉的。

3. 鞑吉斯坦地区的鞑吉斯坦柴油机工厂--制导鱼雷的生产任务没完成。  ( 不仅仅生产柴油机



==========================================================================
http://vz.ru/news/2012/1/26/556631.html

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鞑吉斯坦地区的鞑吉斯坦柴油机工厂生产鱼雷的进度拖着Project 885首艇服役的后腿。

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Nuclear submarine "Severodvinsk" will be taken into service of the Navy in 2012
The multipurpose nuclear submarine (NPS) "Severodvinsk" of class "Ash" will be adopted by the Navy this year after production of the necessary homing torpedoes.This was reported by Itar-Tass source in the military-industrial complex of Russia.

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"Severodvinsk" was not adopted for the Navy of Russia in the past year because of the delivery failure of enterprises "defense" which made weapons that meet the necessary requirements, and above all, homing torpedoes, the source said.
"Liability for failure to fulfill contractual obligations to the state defense order in 2011 belongs to the company" Dagdiesel "Kaspiisk," for the supply of torpedoes   - said a representative of defense.

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"Earlier, there were problems with the cruise missiles for submarines, but now they are virtually eliminated. Submarine itself is done with high quality and has long passed the factory test runs here," Sevmash "worked as it should. The point of the production of required torpedoes, as they are created and successfully  tested, "Severodvinsk" will be put into service, "- said the source.


 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-31 07:58 | 显示全部楼层
---http://www.redstar.ru/2012/01/27_01/1_08.html

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罗戈津召开军事工业发展会议。 就是两个议题。

1. 采取措施提高军事工业企业的管理组织协调能力, 加强质控,按质按量完成国防订货。

2. 切实提高从业人员薪资待遇, 吸引更多年轻人员加入。解决合格人员短缺问题。

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In search of personnel for defense


Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin met with representatives of the military-industrial complex and the trade unions of this sector . The meeting was attended by First Deputy Defence Minister Alexander Sukhorukov.


Vice Prime Minister outlined two sets of issues discussed at the meeting - the implementation of the state defense order and improving the socio-economic status of the defense industry.


Dmitry Rogozin, said that the Ministry of Defense in the period before March 1 shall submit to the government a new version of the military missions in the defense industry enterprises, designed to enhance the quality control of the military-technical products.

Poor quality of the assembly was claimed on military enterprises, in particular, among the causes of unsuccessful trials maritime ballistic missile "Bulava".


According to the Ministry of Defense in 2011, defense companies in the state defense order has not fulfilled 84 contracts worth about 42 billion rubles, reminded the Deputy Prime Minister. The main reasons for this - poor organization of the prime contractor defense contracts, the low level of technological equipment of production, low quality of products and a shortage of qualified personnel.


Rogozin cited a series of numbers that characterize the position of sectors defense. Thus, the average salary of the employee for defense in 2011 rose by 15.8% and amounted to 23,706 rubles. At the same time officers of research institutions, according to statistics, about 31,000 rubles receive. And, for example, enterprises industry of munitions and special chemicals salary is much lower - less than 15,000 rubles. At some plants and it does not exceed 10,000. Therefore, the task the next time - to improve the professional prestige of the special branch of defense at the expense of material incentives.


On the shortage of highly skilled staff and union representatives said. Most of the current CMO staff - people pre-and postpensionnogo age, forced to continue working because of lack of other prospects (especially in the so-called company towns, where the defense companies are-forming), as well as young people, whose professional skills, knowledge and skills needed to be improved .


Great concern to the union cause delays in placing the state defense order, as well as outstanding financial relationship between the customer and the manufacturer, resulting in downtime and businesses, and delays in payments of salaries to employees. In this direction you should take immediate action.


Dmitry Rogozin, and chairman of the Federation of Independent Trade Unions of Russia Mikhail Shmakov assured that such meetings would be regular.


 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-31 08:07 | 显示全部楼层
http://www.rusnews.cn/eguoxinwen ... 20131/43308321.html

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这个也将是对军工联合体企业科学技术发展的一个重要驱动力。

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普京:国企高管工资应当与创新技术领域成果挂钩

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季赫温(列宁格勒州)1月30日电 俄罗斯总理普京认为,国有公司高管人员的工资应当严格与创新技术领域取得的关键性成果挂钩,并扩大应制定创新技术发展项目的国有公司名单。

普京在高科技和创新技术问题政府委员会会议上说:“我认为,应当严格将公司领导和高管人员的工资与创新发展关键性指数挂钩。”

普京还说,这些指数应当非常具体,并反映公司业绩的实质性变化。


 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-1-31 08:17 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 JSTCVW09CD 于 2012-3-4 12:05 编辑

--http://en.rian.ru/business/20120130/171033645.html

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看来包括整个军工联合体在内都要有系统性的动作了。

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Innovation Investment to Rise 60% to $50 Bln - Putin

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State companies will boost their investment in innovations by 60 percent next year to 1.5 trillion rubles ($50 billion), Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said on Monday.

This year, companies with state stakes will channel about 950 billion rubles into their innovation programs. Next year, domestic demand for innovations driven by state companies alone will grow to 1.5 trillion,” Putin told a government commission meeting on the high-tech industry and innovation.

State-owned companies should play a key role in innovation processes, the premier said.

The Russian government has lately stepped up its efforts to diversify the domestic economy by reducing its dependence on oil and gas exports, developing high tech and encouraging R&D work.
As a key part of the government’s drive to modernize Russia's commodity-dependent economy, Russia has launched the construction of the Skolkovo high-tech hub near Moscow, which is intended to be an ultra-modern science community for the development and commercialization of new technologies.
The hub will focus on research in five priority areas: energy, information technology, communication, biomedical research and nuclear technology.
The premier also said that the salaries of top managers at state companies should be contingent on the ability of these entities to achieve key innovative development indicators.

“And finally, I propose that the list of enterprises with state participation that should be obliged to work out innovative development programs should be expanded. I request that the Economics Ministry formulate its proposals on this issue and consider how to raise the efficiency of innovative programs with state participation.”

kktt 发表于 2012-2-1 10:31 | 显示全部楼层
俄罗斯2012年及未来国防订货的重点

原载:俄罗斯《红星报》2012年1月25日
网址:http://www.redstar.ru/2012/01/25_01/1_02.html
作者:安娜•波捷希娜(Анна Потехина)
俄罗斯《红星报》2012年1月25日消息,复杂装备不合理的高昂价格,一些国防工业企业不能提交能论证价格合理的计算,是2011年推迟安排国家国防订货合同的原因。俄罗斯国防部第一副部长亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫在莫斯科的记者招待会上说,国防产品所需要的质量的保障问题仍然没有解决。例如,2011年国防部准备了超过7000份验收单,比2010年多3%。
在传统的与记者的见面会上,俄国防部第一副部长详细地通报了2011年国家国防订货执行情况和2012年国家国防订货安排特点。
2011年俄罗斯国家国防订货预算资金规模为5523亿卢布。包括国家担保贷款(1689亿卢布)在内,2011年国家国防订货总额为7212亿卢布。这一规模大大超过了武装力量往年的技术装备开支。
不过2011年国家国防订货的执行是在新的订货机构编制中进行的。新编制的基础是在实施国家订货人的个别功能时采用责任范围具体化和提高透明度的原则。
俄国防部第一副部长指出,去年工作的特点是简化了国家国防订货执行者预付款项程序。要求对决定着武装力量面貌的国家国防订货任务要100%地预付款项。签订长期合同的做法得到了显著的推广。
2011年还扩大了通过俄罗斯联邦政府的命令确定唯一供货方的做法。为了提高对国家国防订货所提建议的质量,在国防部成立了预算计划委员会和科学技术理事会。
通过2011年国家国防订货任务的执行,向军队交付了:“白杨-M”和“亚尔斯”战略导弹,军用航天器,苏-27SM、苏-34、安-140和苏-35S飞机,米-8AMTШ、米-8MTV-5、卡-52、米-35M、米-28A直升机,22380型水面战舰,“卡马斯”、“乌拉尔”多用途汽车和其他武器装备。
不过在2011年国家国防订货中有总额420亿卢布的84份合同没有完成。对所有未完成合同的企业将提出法律索赔。
对于2012年的计划,亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫指出,国防部在武器装备部分的国家国防订货是在2011-2020年国家装备计划的基础上形成的,总额为7324. 9卢布。加上有国家担保的贷款资金(1759.5亿卢布),2012年国家国防订货总额为9084.4亿卢布。同时,2012年国家国防订货任务总数中以前已经签订了总额3910亿卢布(占2012年国家国防订货总额的53.4%)的745份跨年度长期国家合同。
亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫说,按照2020年前国家装备计划,对俄罗斯联邦武装力量的武器装备供应将不断增加。他说:“2013年国家国防订货将是12400亿卢布,而2014年为15000亿卢布。然后我们将增加到2万亿卢布。”
他说,将不会对国家国防订货规模进行任何削减。同时,他说,2020年前国家装备计划拨款的83%是拨给俄罗斯联邦国防部的。(知远/蓝山)

摘自 知远防务电子报 2012.01.31[第116期]
kktt 发表于 2012-2-1 10:33 | 显示全部楼层
俄罗斯改革2012年武器装备供应模式

原载:俄罗斯《俄罗斯报》2012年1月25日
网址:http://www.rg.ru/2012/01/25/oborona.html
作者:尤里•加夫里洛夫(Юрий Гаврилов)
俄罗斯《俄罗斯报》2012年1月25日消息,1月24日,俄罗斯国防部第一副部长亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫介绍说了2012年军队武器装备供应模式。
鉴于往年的惨痛教训,俄罗斯军方提前展开2012年国家国防订货的安排工作。但同时,国防部要求未来的伙伴们仔细论证最终产品的价格。同时,为了支持企业,军方已于去年采取了史无前例的步骤。100%的预付款项将划拨给军队武库最需要的合同的执行者。目前这一做法已经扩展到2012年国防订货框架内的272项任务。
俄国防部希望,新模式的清晰性和透明性能有助于完成主要任务——用三年的时间让现代化武器装备在军队中的比重达到30%。而到2020年前在常规部队中达到60-70%,在三体一体核力量中达到70-80%。
军队大规模的换装要求国防工业领域采用不同的游戏规则。首先,这涉及到所签合同的持续时间。现代化的导弹系统或新的核潜艇一两年内造不出来。科研调查、设计工作、而主要的——理顺新武器的批量生产都需要时间。因此军方开始签订为期不止3年的合同,个别类型的产品合同期到2018年甚至2020年。亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫说,2012年长期合同占当年全部国防订货的一半以上。
国家将对生产者采取金融优惠和积极参加国防企业改造——为此将斥资约3万亿卢布。亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫说,国防部正在国防工业综合体的结构中强制设立质量管理部门。如果企业没有这样的机构,它可能会失去执照。创新的意义在于使军事验收不再是手持鞭子的检查员。应该由生产者自己来对产品质量负责。不过,这不排除订货方的监督。
在国防合同中现在规定对不正当的执行者进行处罚。从今年起这样的生产者将由行政违法法典的新条款来处罚——中断执行国防订货的企业将被罚款一百万卢布,如果过错方是自然人,则罚款5万卢布。此外,工厂或公司可能被列入所谓的黑名单——不正当供货者目录。其结果是禁止接受订货。
俄罗斯武装力量今年将接收哪些武器装备呢?军方没有公布完整的清单。但亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫列举了一部分。例如,海军航空兵将接收28架米格-29K和米格-29KUB舰载战斗机;空军将继续采购雅克-130教练战斗机,将军们估计航空兵对该机的需求超过50架;此外,陆军航空兵将接收129架各型直升机;空天防御部队将接收一个营的S-400防空导弹系统。
亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫提醒说:“去年12月完成了‘圆锤’海基导弹系统的国家试验,目前正在起草其列装海军的命令。至于‘圆锤’的采购,已经被写入2020年前的国家装备计划。”
根据《俄罗斯报》记者的请求,亚历山大•苏霍鲁科夫再次阐述了国防部在采购卡拉什尼科夫自动步枪问题上的立场。原来,早在两年前国防部就形成了自己对于新的轻武器——从手枪到榴弹发射器的要求。目前国防部正在资助该领域中的2项试验设计工作,结果要到2014年前才能出来。
苏霍鲁科夫还说,将在沃罗涅日成立一个联合企业,以意大利“依维柯”为原型组装装甲汽车。合同规定为陆军购买60辆这种装甲车。
至于其他的外国生装备的购买,国防部的立场没有改变——2012年将不会大规模采购国外装备。(知远/蓝山)

摘自 知远防务电子报 2012.01.31[第116期]
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-2-1 10:53 | 显示全部楼层
知远/蓝山的翻译真是很到位啊。
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-2-1 11:04 | 显示全部楼层
http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20120131/553346399.html

===

罗戈津在沃列涅茨表示要在1到1年半时间内解决军事通信的缺陷。


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Rogozin calls on quick elimination of  the claims of military communications

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VORONEZH, January 31 - RIA Novosti. Claims for military troop communications should be addressed in the next year and a half, said Tuesday Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.
"We have little time - 1-1.5 years, so the claims were resolved," - said Rogozin told reporters after the exhibition of new communications and electronic warfare in Voronezh.
"Russia in the near future we need to develop communication systems on tactical level. They need to be adopted by the Army and Special Forces," - said Rogozin.
According to him, during the Georgian-Ossetian conflict in August 2011 it was tactical communications Forces showed their shortcomings.
"This has to be overcomed immediately," - said Rogozin.
According to him, on this issue is a direct order of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin. "The armed forces must be equipped with the troops on the battlefield operating smoothly, from small units to large units," - he added.

zhyuli 发表于 2012-2-1 12:48 | 显示全部楼层
2011年俄罗斯国家国防订货预算资金规模为5523亿卢布。包括国家担保贷款(1689亿卢布)在内,2011年国家国防订货总额为7212亿卢布。


这句没看明白,国家担保贷款(1689亿卢布)是给谁的??应该不是给军方的吧,没有哪个国家的军队会贷款买武器的——太麻烦了,直接走财政多简单。  如果是给军火供应商的,那不能算在国防订货总额里——很简单,根据会计学基本知识,订货款是“收入”,贷款是“成本”,也就是“支出” ,鹅毛怎么把收支两条线给搞混了???!!! 谁能解释一下??
 楼主| JSTCVW09CD 发表于 2012-2-1 13:01 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 JSTCVW09CD 于 2012-2-1 13:03 编辑


财务上。 在资产负债表,利润表,现金流量表中,说的是在啥子表中的对应的啥子项啊?



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点评

啥子上下游配套? 国防部只和总承包签订合约买成品。 谁管总承包商和各级资承包商的经济来往。( 国防部买飞机, 还要和轮胎产商签订采购合约么?)  发表于 2012-2-1 13:25
这算神马解释??国家单笔贷款生产出来的东西是最终产品,还是上下游企业之间的配套产品??如果是前者,那么这笔钱的用户就是军队,如果是后者那么这笔钱的用户就是军功企业——这笔钱就不能算作国防开支里  发表于 2012-2-1 13:22
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