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[其他主题] NASA主导的环月DRO/NRO轨道站

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snowtiger 发表于 2016-12-25 23:03 | 显示全部楼层

对FH升级来说大猛禽应该是过杀了,别的不说喷管直径就比火箭壳体还粗
喵科动物 发表于 2016-12-26 14:33 | 显示全部楼层
snowtiger 发表于 2016-12-25 23:03
对FH升级来说大猛禽应该是过杀了,别的不说喷管直径就比火箭壳体还粗

所以ITS没法靠FH上面级增加产量摊薄成本
snowtiger 发表于 2016-12-26 16:20 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
喵科动物 发表于 2016-12-26 14:33
所以ITS没法靠FH上面级增加产量摊薄成本

大小猛禽必然共用大多数生产设施
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-20 12:51 | 显示全部楼层
服务舱(Power and Propulsion Bus, PPB)的方案。
PPB干重约6.3t,发射重量约8.5t,目前的计划是随EM-3任务发射。NASA和ESA各提供一套电推,互为备份;NASA的电推兼用做RCS,此外还有一套肼基RCS推进器互为备份。两个太阳能电池板可提供50-60kWe的电力。



http://russianspaceweb.com/imp-ppb.html

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黑与白 发表于 2017-1-20 12:53 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 黑与白 于 2017-1-20 12:56 编辑
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-20 12:51
服务舱(Power and Propulsion Bus, PPB)的方案。
PPB干重约6.3t,发射重量约8.5t,目前的计划是随EM-3任 ...

这是真要整啊,很好乐见深空载人任务
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-20 12:58 | 显示全部楼层
黑与白 发表于 2017-1-20 12:53
这是真要整啊,很好乐见深空载人任务

目前还是方案阶段,等新局长拍板就上马
农民宇航员 发表于 2017-1-20 17:48 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-20 12:51
服务舱(Power and Propulsion Bus, PPB)的方案。
PPB干重约6.3t,发射重量约8.5t,目前的计划是随EM-3任 ...

ESA的电推是啥妖孽啊,直径那么大?
胜世天骄 发表于 2017-1-20 19:55 | 显示全部楼层
农民宇航员 发表于 2017-1-20 17:48
ESA的电推是啥妖孽啊,直径那么大?


European experience in electric propulsion systems, such as the one installed on the Artemis communications satellite (above) will be used to develop a new-generation system for the PPB module. It will likely be the first use of electric propulsion in human space flight.
Pushok 发表于 2017-1-20 22:46 | 显示全部楼层
胜世天骄 发表于 2017-1-20 06:55
European experience in electric propulsion systems, such as the one installed on the Artemis com ...

天宫笑而不语
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胜世天骄 发表于 2017-1-21 00:18 | 显示全部楼层

中国连东方红四号都还没用上电推好意思笑别人?
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自由狼-台风 发表于 2017-1-21 17:49 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 自由狼-台风 于 2017-1-23 18:37 编辑
joki 发表于 2016-12-20 13:50
不是穿侧壁不可行,而是自燃推进剂这么搞,万一受热或有接口有残余,有风险。冷却液或者氧气相对安全多了 ...

基于这个思路细化:
Trunk 里的上面锁在二级上,等二级停机、要分离的时候上面级解锁,再锁到 Trunk 上。

这样,在需要逃逸的时候 Trunk 和上面级还没锁定,不存在还需要一道解锁 (或者火工品分离) 步骤的问题。
关键时刻,阴阳之间可能就差这一步。
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-21 17:57 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
农民宇航员 发表于 2017-1-20 17:48
ESA的电推是啥妖孽啊,直径那么大?

图片里显示的是电推喷口周围的适配器(星箭接口),esa的电推是固定喷口,可以布置的相对紧凑
农民宇航员 发表于 2017-1-21 19:57 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-21 17:57
图片里显示的是电推喷口周围的适配器(星箭接口),esa的电推是固定喷口,可以布置的相对紧凑

原来如此,美欧应该都是霍尔效应推进器吧
cmj9808 发表于 2017-1-22 13:54 | 显示全部楼层
农民宇航员 发表于 2017-1-21 19:57
原来如此,美欧应该都是霍尔效应推进器吧

ESA的是霍尔效应,NASA的可能是离子型推进器,比如下面这款

http://bbs.9ifly.cn/forum.php?mo ... 4760&fromuid=31
9m96e2 发表于 2017-1-22 18:10 来自航空航天港手机版! | 显示全部楼层
自由狼-台风 发表于 2017-1-21 17:49
基于这个思路细化:
Trunk 里的上面锁在二级上,等二级停机、要分离的时候上面级解锁,再锁到 Trunk 上 ...

上面的接点正常工况下应该不用受拉,逃逸时直接扯断就可以吧
joki 发表于 2017-1-23 16:30 | 显示全部楼层
自由狼-台风 发表于 2017-1-21 17:49
基于这个思路细化:
Trunk 里的上面锁在二级上,等二级停机、要分离的时候上面级解锁,再锁到 Trunk 上 ...

这倒是。不过也可以考虑用火工品分离,也很可靠。
hkhtg090201 发表于 2017-3-10 07:36 | 显示全部楼层
悄然完成  可能的 月球轨道空间站 设计
NASA, ISS partners quietly completing design of possible Moon-orbiting space station
Posted by Anatoly Zak  09-03-2017 6:00 CST
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/g ... slunar-station.html

hkhtg090201 发表于 2017-3-10 10:37 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 hkhtg090201 于 2017-3-10 10:42 编辑
hkhtg090201 发表于 2017-3-10 07:36
悄然完成  可能的 月球轨道空间站 设计
NASA, ISS partners quietly completing design of possible Moon- ...

实验附件,不太准确的参考翻译,建议只参考粗体字和彩色字体:






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Flying_Pencil 发表于 2017-3-11 10:47 | 显示全部楼层
hkhtg090201 发表于 2017-3-10 07:36
悄然完成  可能的 月球轨道空间站 设计
NASA, ISS partners quietly completing design of possible Moon- ...

文章里讲轨道已经确定NRO了
The ISS partners also made a crucial decision in Tsukuba to assemble and operate the proposed cis-lunar station in a so-called Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit, or NRHO. This giant, egg-shaped loop extends 70,000 kilometers from the Moon at its farthest point and comes as close as 1,500 kilometers at the nearest. An NHRO would enable the station to save propellant for orbital corrections and avoids the blocking of sunlight by the Moon from reaching the station’s solar panels, while always keeping the spacecraft within a line of sight to ground controllers on Earth.
hkhtg090201 发表于 2017-3-11 14:04 | 显示全部楼层
hkhtg090201 发表于 2017-3-10 10:37
实验附件,不太准确的参考翻译,建议只参考粗体字和彩色字体:

  感谢各位捧场, 下面顺流了一下翻译, 以便更符合汉语说话习惯.

-----------------

NASA与ISS合作伙伴正在悄悄地完成拟议中的月球轨道站设计
NASA, ISS partners quietly completingdesign of possible Moon-orbiting space station
Posted by Anatoly Zak  09-03-2017 6:00 CST
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2017/20170309-nasa-iss-partners-cislunar-station.html

... ...

The centerpiece of that plan includes the "proving ground"in cis-lunar space. After years of behind-the-scenes negotiations, NASA and itsInternational Space Station partners are close to finalizing the architectureof a proposed human outpost in the vicinity of the Moonas early as June or July of this year, according to industry sourcesfamiliar with the project.

这个计划的核心就包含这个位于地月空间的“实验场地”。 根据熟悉该项目的业内人士消息, 经过多年的幕后谈判,NASA及其国际空间站合作伙伴(最)早将在今年6月或7月,接近完成这个被提议的 月球附近载人前哨项目的(设计)构架

... ...


Last month, experts from five spaceagencies held a behind-the-scenes meeting in Tsukuba, Japan,the home of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. In the following fewmonths, the designs for the largest international undertaking in humanspaceflight since the ISS will be reviewed by space agencies. Engineers mightalso begin constructing the first full-scale prototype of the near-lunarhabitat here on Earth to assess the ability of proposed modules to support thecrew.
  上个月,来自五个航天局的专家在位于筑波的日本宇宙航空探测局 举行了幕后会议在接下来的几个月中, 这个自从国际空间站以来 人类航天领域中最大的国际间承诺的 设计,将由(各国?)空间机构进行审查。工程师们还可能开始在地球上 构建这个近月栖息地的 第一个全尺寸原型,以评估这个拟议中的舱段支持载人的能力。

The ISS partners also made a crucialdecision in Tsukuba to assemble and operate the proposed cis-lunar station in aso-called Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit, or NRHO. This giant, egg-shaped loopextends 70,000 kilometers from the Moon at its farthest point and comes asclose as 1,500 kilometers at the nearest. An NHRO would enable the station tosave propellant for orbital corrections and avoids the blocking of sunlight bythe Moon from reaching the station’s solar panels,while always keeping the spacecraft within a line of sight to groundcontrollers on Earth.
  在筑波,ISS合作伙伴也做出了一项重要决定,就是要在所谓的近直线晕环轨道(NRHO)中组装和运行 该拟议中的地月轨道站。这个巨大的,蛋形的环 最远处延伸到了距离月球70,000公里,最近1,500公里。 NHRO将使得该站能够节省用于轨道校正的推进剂,并且避免月球阻挡太阳光到达该站的太阳能电池板,同时总是将该航天器保持在地球上的地面控制器视线内

This would also allow NASA’s Orion spacecraft to easily approach—and,in the event of an emergency, rapidly depart—thestation. However, vehicles bound for the lunarsurface from the NRHO will be taxed in terms ofmass and propellant, when compared to orbits closer to the Moon.
这也将使得美国宇航局的猎户座航天器很容易接近,并在紧急情况下,迅速离开该站。然而,与靠近月球的轨道相比,运载器从NRHO到月球表面 将消耗(更多的)时间和推进剂

... ...

It would take the station a week to makeeach revolution around the Moon in such an orbit. Although the NRHO is aprimary location for the base, the outpost would still be able to maneuver toother destinations in the future.
  (大致意思:) 在这样一个轨道上,绕行月球一圈将需要一个星期的时间... ...。虽然NRHO是该空间站的常住位置,但这个前哨基站仍然能够在将来 机动到其他目的地
   

The partners are also said to be ontrack to finalize their common technical standards for the station as early asApril. The critical agreement will make sure that all the hardware andtechnology needed in the program, such as rendezvous and docking systems, lifesupport, communications, power supply and thermal control gear will workseamlessly and safely for years to come.
  这些合作伙伴也指出,计划早在4月份完成该站的 通用技术标准。关键协议将确保规划中所需的所有硬件和技术,例如会合和对接系统,生命支持,通信,电源和热控制设备 将在未来几年无缝和安全地工作。

According to the latest design, thestation includes a pair of habitation modules built by Europe and Japan, aU.S.-built power and propulsion module, a Russian airlock module and the 8.5-meterCanadian robotic arm. Based on the experience obtained during the ISS program,the life-support system of the cis-lunar station will eventually feature atruly "closed-loop" technology, essentially recycling all itsresources, such as waste water and oxygen.
  根据最新设计,该站包括由欧洲和日本建造的一对居住舱段,美国建造的动力和推进舱段,俄罗斯气闸舱段和8.5米加拿大机械臂。根据在ISS计划期间获得的经验,这个独立月球站的生命支持系统将最终具有真正的“闭环”技术,基本上回收其所有资源,如废水和氧气

Engineers are also considering adding a360-degree "glass" deck on the station with multiple windows,enabling future astronauts to enjoy lunar vistas, much like today’s ISS crews observe the Earth through the panoramic windows of thecupola module. Depending on the mission, the new-generation cupola could bebolted to different docking ports of the station.
  工程师也正在考虑在该站上增加一个360度的“玻璃”舱板,有多个窗口,使未来的宇航员可以享受月球景观,就像今天ISS承组通过圆顶舱段的全景窗户观察地球一样。根据任务,新一代圆顶舱可以被对接(栓)到该站的不同对接口。

NASA’s Orionspacecraft, launching on a giant SLS rocket, would conduct annual trips to thestation, delivering crews and most of the outpost’scomponents. In the latest move agreed to in Tsukuba, Russiawill also evaluate the possibility of using its new-generation Angara-5 rocketto carry its airlock module to the station.
   NASA的猎户座航天器,由一个巨大的SLS火箭发射,每年将实施访问该站,发送乘组和大部分空间站(前哨)部件。在最近在筑驻同意变化,俄罗斯也将评估使用其新一代安加拉-5火箭携带其气闸舱段到该站的可能性。

According to current plans, thecis-lunar outpost would be under construction and operation for much of the2020s. Still, this scenario is considered only as the first step in enablinghuman missions further into space, such as expeditions to asteroids, the moonsof Mars and ultimately the Martian surface during the 2030s.
   根据目前的计划,这个地月前哨站 将在2020年代的大部分时间进行建设和运行。然而,这...只...是...第一步,...探险小行星,火星...2030年代。

Despite big progress on the engineeringfront, the project faces an "elephant in the room" in terms ofpolitical support. The new White House administration has yet to lay out itsvision for NASA’s human spaceflight program.International partners are also not on the same page in terms of the project’s ultimate goal. Russia,for instance, wants to focus the station on the exploration of the Moon ratherthan its use as a test bed for a mission to Mars as insisted by NASA. Duringthe latest meeting in Tsukuba, Russian officials reportedly proposed analternative design of the outpost aimed at the Moon. Roskosmos promised toanalyze whether keeping the station in a low lunar orbit would be feasible.
   尽管在工程前沿取得了巨大进步,但在政治支持方面,该项目面临着集体沉默(“房间里的大象”)。 新的白宫行政当局尚未为NASA的载人航天计划制定愿景。 国际合作伙伴在该项目的最终目标方面也不在同一页面。 例如,俄罗斯希望将该站的重点放在月球的探测上,而不是将其用作NASA关于火星任务的试验台。在最近在筑波的会议上,据报俄罗斯官员提出了一个针对该月球前哨的另一种设计。 俄航天局许诺 要分析是否将该站保持在低月球轨道是否可行

To address potential disagreements onwhere to go with the cis-lunar habitat, NASA promised to study how to adapt theoutpost for both tasks. One solution would be keeping some of the infrastructurenear the Moon permanently, while otherpieces could later be detached in order to go to Mars or other deep-spacedestinations.
  为了解决这个地月栖息地可能存在的分歧,NASA承诺研究如何适应这两种(不同的)任务。一个解决方案是将一些基础设施永久保留在月球附近,而其他部分可以随后在轨道上拆开,以便去到火星或其它深空目的地。
   
Engineers are also working to ensure anopen architecture design for the new outpost, where new modules or componentscould be "plugged-in" into the station, in case new international orcommercial partners join the project.
  工程师们还在努力确保这个新前哨站的开放式架构设计,新的舱段或组件可以“插入”到该站,以防新的国际或商业合作伙伴加入该项目
   
In preparation for possible politicaland public relations battles ahead, NASA proposed toname the cis-lunar station a spaceport, while the future Mars-bound partof the project would be dubbed a spaceship. Interestingly, the spaceportconcept in lunar orbit appears in early Russian studies of the project circa2005.
  为了准备迎接将来可能的政治和公共关系争斗,美国航天局提出将该地月空间站 作为 (命名为)一个太空港,而未来火星航行项目的一部分将被称为太空飞船。有趣的是,... ...。

   Although all the key components ofthe cis-lunar station are to be delivered by NASA’sgiant SLS rocket, there is an open question on cargo missions, which will beneeded to support the crews during progressively longer missions. Although nodecision on cargo delivery has been made yet, it is possible to speculate theagencies might want to outsource logistical operations to industrialcontractors, which would provide their own launch vehicles and spacecraft. Inthat scenario, U.S.companies like SpaceX and Orbital ATK could have big advantages in any biddingprocesses, thanks to their experience in delivering cargo to the ISS on theDragon and the Cygnus cargo ships, respectively.
   虽然地月空间站的所有关键部件都是由美国航天局的巨型SLS火箭发送,但对货物飞行任务有一个悬而未决的问题,这将需要在逐步更长的任务期间内支持飞行乘组。虽然尚未就货物交付作出决定,但可以推测,各机构可能想将后勤业务外包给工业承包商,这些承包商将提供自己的运载火箭和航天器。在这种情况下,像SpaceX和Orbital ATK这样的美国公司在任何招标过程中都可以有很大的优势,这要归功于他们分别在Dragon和Cygnus货船上运送货物的经验。

Just two weeks after the meeting inTsukuba, SpaceX announced its intention to send a pair of tourists on a missionaround the Moon onboard its Crew Dragon spacecraft, launched by the FalconHeavy rocket. Although the company’s deadline for thecis-lunar mission at the end of 2018 is not considered realistic, the rocketand spacecraft could mature in time to support a cis-lunar outpost. The company’s Falcon Heavy can deliver more than half of the payload carried byNASA’s SLS rocket.
  ...在在筑波会议两个星期后,SpaceX宣布打算派遣一对游客 去月球... ...。

Assembly of the station is currentlyproposed to begin with the third flight of Orion around 2023. The firstlogistics flight for the cis-lunar outpost might be required between 2024 and2025, sources said.
  目前,该站的装配建议从2023年左右开始,使用猎户座第三次飞行。该地月前哨站的 第一次物流飞行 可能需要在2024年至2025年之间。

 For more historic and technicalbackground on the cis-lunar project, visit Russianspaceweb.com.
 ... ...
Comments评论:
Ken肯: 03/09/201706:31 CST

A space station in orbit around the Moonwill be outside the Earth's magnetosphere. If astronauts are to spend a year ata time in orbit around the Moon, how will they be protected from the increasedradiation?
Marcel : 03/09/2017 10:23 CST
月球轨道上的一个空间站将在地球的磁层之外。如果宇航员要在月球周围的轨道上花一年时间,他们将如何保护免受辐射增加?
... ...
... ...

PS: 水平有限,欢迎提出宝贵意见  - 这种书本上的老套话以后就不每次都说了, ... 预先谢谢各位指正.




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