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[机型] 俄罗斯五代机(T50)讨论专贴:开始雷达测试

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kwah 发表于 2010-1-30 13:43 | 显示全部楼层
speed老大分析分析吧
致远 发表于 2010-1-30 13:49 | 显示全部楼层
没有眼前一亮的感觉,那位老大科普一下吧。
speed 发表于 2010-1-30 14:02 | 显示全部楼层
大面积的可动边条是T50设计的一个亮点,很多人都提到了可动边条的好处,比如说主动控制涡流的产生,可以作为进气道的斜板为进气提供预压缩。

不过我觉得它的缺点很多人没有注意到,一是可动边条在为进气道提供预压缩的同时,在可动边条参与飞行控制的同时是否会对进气道的进气产生不利的干扰,从而限制了可动边条的作用,这点还需要观察。

二是可动边条的存在,使机体前缘形成多道缝隙,这对隐身处理很不利,毛子据说掌握了柔性蒙皮技术,但是在T50是否使用柔性蒙皮技术还不清楚。
fr6 发表于 2010-1-30 14:12 | 显示全部楼层
应该说毛5已经尽可能的采用了毛子现在能用上的所有家底。可动边条的面积不小。既可以起到控制涡流相当于一个小鸭翼的作用,也能在某些飞行状态下给进气道提供压气功能。还能把孔径天线做在里面,算是个有特色的设计。V型全懂垂尾面积较小,尽可能的考虑到了减少RCS,而且配合面积不小的平尾,在指向性能上会很有特色。机头和机身前部设计较普通,整体看是个F22化的SU27。座舱离机头较近,估计是需要配平较重的尾部。整个后机身和进气道很有毛子的传统风格。特别是进气道,感觉就是把SU27的拿来将口部向外拧了半圈再把口子扩了一圈。只能说比起SU27的进气道的RCS会有些削减,但和 F22的比就明显不足。其余部分如弹仓现在没有详细的资料暂时还不能下结论。总之这个PAK-FA就是一款地地道道的毛子5代机,这个世界上也只有毛子才会把5代机造成这样了。
langge945 发表于 2010-1-30 14:38 | 显示全部楼层
应该说毛5已经尽可能的采用了毛子现在能用上的所有家底。可动边条的面积不小。既可以起到控制涡流相当于一个 ...
fr6 发表于 2010-1-30 14:12



    大大说的太对了。。毛5.。正宗的毛子口味版。。
暗夜流星 发表于 2010-1-30 14:52 | 显示全部楼层
从这个机腹来看,能隐身么? 毛五是不是就光顾这正前方的 RCS ,其他的就不管了。

T50的仰视图,可以清楚的看见机腹的2个弹舱。
speed 发表于 2010-1-30 13:04
speed 发表于 2010-1-30 15:26 | 显示全部楼层
从这个机腹来看,能隐身么? 毛五是不是就光顾这正前方的 RCS ,其他的就不管了。

暗夜流星 发表于 2010-1-30 14:52


机腹设计对隐身方面的影响目前还看不出来,倒是发动机舱和尾喷口的设计实在是太粗糙了,对机体后向隐身基本没有考虑。
wfwyt 发表于 2010-1-30 15:42 | 显示全部楼层
整天惦记着自己的四代,毛5却首飞了,感觉有点郁闷!自己的娃还不知道长的啥样呢。
边城浪子 发表于 2010-1-30 17:09 | 显示全部楼层
应该说毛5已经尽可能的采用了毛子现在能用上的所有家底。可动边条的面积不小。既可以起到控制涡流相当于一个 ...
fr6 发表于 2010-1-30 14:12

怎么一直没看到你在CD了?
crbyt 发表于 2010-1-30 17:31 | 显示全部楼层
尾喷口现在说明不了什么问题,只能说明发动机用的是旧的。咱们的丝带首飞也不一定会用新发的。
speed 发表于 2010-1-30 18:46 | 显示全部楼层
从目前的视频来看,T50的长度看起来比SU27要小一些,翼展也要小一些。

估计T50的全长为19米,翼展为13米左右,这也符合苏霍伊之前所宣布的,PAK-FA项目是一款小于SU27的前线战斗机。
speed 发表于 2010-1-30 21:08 | 显示全部楼层
Russia Unveils Fighter Seen as Rival to F-22
By STUART WILLIAMS, AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 29 Jan 2010 07:53

http://www.defensenews.com/story ... amp;c=AIR&s=TOP

MOSCOW - Russia on Jan. 29 unveiled a new fighter aircraft touted as a rival of the U.S. F-22 stealth jet and developed amid the highest secrecy as part of a plan to modernize the armed forces.

The fifth generation fighter, manufactured by the Sukhoi company and known as the PAK FA, made a maiden flight of just over 45 minutes at the firm's home base of Komsomolsk-on-Amur in the Far East region.

"The flight lasted 47 minutes during which all the aircraft's systems were tested. It was successful," Sukhoi spokeswoman Olga Kayukova told AFP.

"This is the first time it has been unveiled."

Pictures broadcast on state television showed the fighter jet - which has been kept closely under wraps for years - flying at altitude and then landing on a snow-surrounded runway.

"The aircraft performed well in all stages of the flight program. It is easy and comfortable to pilot," said Sergei Bogdan, the pilot for the flight, in comments published on the Sukhoi website.

The new plane can fly long distances above the speed of sound as well as simultaneously attack different targets, according to the Interfax news agency.

It can also collate information from satellites and other planes in line with the demands of modern warfare.

Until now, even Russian state television had only shown artist's impressions of the plane.

Only the United States has such a fifth generation fighter in its armed forces - the F-22 - although it is also developing the lighter F-35.

China is also working to develop a fifth-generation model.

"The PAK FA project is one of the most complicated technological projects realized in the post-Soviet era," said the daily Vedomosti. "Without PAK FA, Russia will not be able to independently assure its own security."

Russia is currently embarking on a major program to re-equip its military, not least the air force which is still using largely Soviet-era equipment and suffers from frequent crashes.

The new fighter, which has been in development since the 1990s, is due to enter the armed forces in 2015, Russian news agencies said.

The first flight of the PAK FA (Prospective Aviation System of Frontline Aviation) is being seen in Russia as a major boost for the military after the project was hit by repeated delays over the last years.

"There is no doubt that the plane is needed," the ex-commander of the Russian air force, Anatoly Kornukov, told the Interfax news agency.

"Our Su-27 and MiG-29 planes are good but have aged. They are 20 or more years old and it's time to have something as a replacement," he said.

He said the new plane could easily stand comparison with the U.S. F-22. "It's going to be no worse than an F-22. I've been in an F-22 and I know."

Russia's liberal Nezavisimaya Gazeta struck a more circumspect tone, saying the test version was only a prototype that did not yet contain an advanced engine and it was still unclear what weapons it would carry.

Russia's campaign to modernize its military has been marred by repeated setbacks with new equipment, above all a string of failed tests of its new Bulava sea-based intercontinental nuclear-capable missile.

Its main defense partner India has also been involved in the PAK FA project and will develop a two seater version of the aircraft under an intellectual property agreement made with Russia.
speed 发表于 2010-1-30 21:09 | 显示全部楼层
New Russian Fighter Makes Maiden Flight
By Nabi Abdullaev
Published: 29 Jan 2010 13:01

http://www.defensenews.com/story ... amp;c=EUR&s=AIR

Moscow - Russia's long-awaited fifth-generation stealth jet fighter made its maiden flight in the Russian Far East on Jan. 29.

The fighter, tentatively dubbed the T-50 and designed jointly with India, is intended to challenge the technological superiority of the U.S. F-22 Raptor, and to boost Russia's own defense capabilities for several decades.

Designed by Sukhoi and built by the company's Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant, the T-50 prototype flew for 47 minutes and landed on the plant's airfield. In a statement distributed by Sukhoi on Jan. 29, its pilot, Sergei Bogdan, said the airplane "performed well on all stages of the test-flight program design by us. It is easy and comfortable."

According to Sukhoi, the fighter - Russia's first all-new warplane since the collapse of the Soviet Union - has new avionics systems, a phased-array radar, and equipment to exchange information with both ground command-and-control systems and other aircraft in an air warfare group.

"This allows a significant increase in military effectiveness," a company statement said, stressing that the T-50 answers all requirements of a fifth-generation fighter, including a supersonic cruising speed. The sophisticated control systems "allow a pilot to concentrate on tactical tasks," while use of composite materials, the aerodynamic design of the body and measures taken to decrease the visibility of the aircraft engine provide for "unprecedented low radio, optical and infrared visibility," the statement said.

T-50 and modernized fourth-generation fighters will be the core of the Russian Air Force for decades, Sukhoi General Director Mikhail Pogosyan said in the statement.

"I am confident that our joint project [with India] will leave behind Western equivalents in terms of cost effectiveness and will not only strengthen the defensive capabilities of Russia and India, but also occupy a worthy place on the market," Pogosyan said.

The F-22 is the only fifth-generation fighter in the world since it first flew in 1997. The U.S. Congress bans export sales of F-22s.

Russian Deputy Defense Minister Vladimir Popovkin has said that the fifth-generation fighters will enter service beginning 2015.

Sukhoi said that the T-50 was equipped with new engines developed by the Rybinsk-based NPO Saturn company. The engines were first tested on a Su-27M fighter on the Zhukovsky field outside Moscow on Jan. 21.

Russia started developing a fifth-generation fighter in the late 1980s, with MiG Corp. taking the lead in research and development. But in the mid-1990s, the MiG project was dumped because of Russia's economic problems. Sukhoi began work on the fighter in the early 2000s when the government decided to return to the project.

Russian news agencies have reported that the T-50 has a range of 5,500 kilometers and can develop a speed of 2,100 kilometers per hour.
1.852 发表于 2010-1-31 09:28 | 显示全部楼层
罗刹帝国没落了。
bugmoto 发表于 2010-1-31 11:32 | 显示全部楼层
怎么一直没看到你在CD了?
边城浪子 发表于 2010-1-30 17:09


在CD被一个他鄙视的大神连续挖了几个坑,他就连续跳,摔的鼻青脸肿的,然后就号称退出了。。
speed 发表于 2010-1-31 14:39 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 speed 于 2010-2-1 01:10 编辑



昨天又想了一下,觉得T50进气道前缘的那个可动边条的面积非常大,整个边条几乎都是可动的,这样的话边条很可能并不参与飞行控制,而只是单纯的进气道压缩斜板而已,如果可动边条的目的是在进气道的正前方制造涡流,会在进气道附近形成湍流,对发动机的工作非常不利,这是每一个设计者都会避免的事情。但是如果可动边条的目的是为进气道提供预压缩,那么就可以理解这种设计了。

CARET进气道的优点是没有活动部件,结构简单重量轻,设计点附近效率很高,但是缺点是在非设计点附近的效率不如普通的可调式进气道,所以毛子在CARET进气道之前又加了一个可调的斜板,作为补充,以提高非设计点附近进气道的效率,但是这样的做法增加结构的复杂程度,增加了重量,同时也增大了RCS。


对T50的这个设计的看法,我认为毛子是把机动性能至于隐身性能之上,或者也可能是发动机的推力不足,才会出现这样的设计,如果像美国的F22那样将隐身性能至于非常重要的地位,同时又配备了两台强劲的发动机,是不会出现这种妥协的设计。
=======================================================


第二种可能性就是边条不可动,边条与机身之间的空隙,起到了机翼前缘锯齿的作用,减缓气流分离。

=======================================================

第三种可能性,就是可动边条实际上只有边条前缘黄色的那一小段可动,这样的话,边条作动时对下面进气道的影响就很小了,同时又可以起到涡流控制器的作用。

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langge945 发表于 2010-1-31 15:04 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 langge945 于 2010-1-31 15:05 编辑
昨天又想了一下,觉得T50进气道前缘的那个可动边条,很可能并不参与飞行控制,而只是单纯的进气道压缩斜板而 ...
speed 发表于 2010-1-31 14:39



    大大。。TG的大青蛙进度这么样了。。备胎和这个相似程度多少呢?。。。传说大青蛙今年年底首飞是不是。。。备胎呢?
海4呢?。。。这个对于TG来说是个刺激不?。。
风格 发表于 2010-1-31 15:30 | 显示全部楼层
啊 大青蛙还有备胎呀  有老大不是说重四以成都为主全国大协作吗  还有时间精力金钱?如果是真的那才是疯狂!
speed 发表于 2010-1-31 16:11 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 speed 于 2010-1-31 16:13 编辑
昨天又想了一下,觉得T50进气道前缘的那个可动边条的面积非常大,整个边条几乎都是可动的,这样的话边条 ...

speed 发表于 2010-1-31 14:39







从这两张图上来看,尤其是第二张图,基本可以确定是第一种可能性,进气道前缘的上方的整个边条都是可动的。

毛五看来真的很保守,居然用了这么一种设计,这是我能想到的最坏的一种可能性。

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speed 发表于 2010-1-31 16:21 | 显示全部楼层
晕倒,进气道上方的可调斜板的面积如此之大的话,那么机翼翼根处的那个茧包的作用也就是可以理解了,那个茧包既不是内置弹舱也不是电子吊舱,而单纯只是一个进气道斜板的液压作动器而已。
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